What are the worst mistakes parents make? How does a child feel when he is compared to others or raised in public? How can you not say “Put on your hat” or “Finish your soup”? Teacher Dima Zitser tells.

The main parental sin is pride

— I would like to talk about the worst mistakes that parents can make when communicating with their children. About parental sins, practically.

— The main parental sin, it seems to me, coincides with the main human sin, pride. There is nothing wrong with pride in itself. But out of her grows the conviction that I am the boss, out of her grows responsibility for the child at the level of enslavement. You need to treat yourself easier, although this only comes with age.

— Is comparison scary? Big mistake?

— The root of comparing everything with everything is in us: we are not enough of ourselves as we are. We do not believe, due to various circumstances, in particular our own upbringing, that we are cool. And so we try to have something we can grab onto so that at least our child can be the coolest.

“But maybe the child feels good from being compared to someone.” Maybe he wants to become better than the other child.

“When a child is compared to someone else, several things happen to him. Thing number one: the younger I am, the more important my mom and dad are to me, and I trust them unconditionally. If mom and dad tell me that I’m worse than Pavlik, my self-confidence begins to crumble. I am beginning to understand for the first time that perhaps I need to live not in a way that would be interesting, but in a way that would overtake Pavlik.

This can be done in different ways: smear his notebook with ink, deceive his mother and say that Pavlik got a two on the test. We get a completely different mechanism, a competition mechanism that has nothing to do with self-development.

Is this a good mechanism or a bad one? That's a different conversation. But if we are talking about the human in us, then it should not work here. I think readers themselves can remember how this happens here. For example, we are calmly driving along the road in a car, and suddenly for some reason it becomes super important for us to overtake someone. Why and how this happens is unknown, we just suddenly press the gas with all our might and rush forward. And just at this moment it is interesting to record the sensations within yourself.

We can talk about the nature of this feeling. I've been thinking a lot in recent months about the idea of ​​the human and the animal in us. It is obvious that we have both. It seems to me that one of the goals of human existence is to get closer to the human principle and move away from the animal.

How are we different from animals? Free will. Animals cannot say “yes” or “no” to themselves.

The animal nature in us is precisely the desire to survive: to catch the best female or male, to overtake a person on the road and, finally, to defeat Pavlik. Otherwise, someone else will do all this for us.

But here’s the problem: over the past few thousand years, and readers have probably heard about this, a lot has changed. The instincts remain, but the rest has changed. The tension between these two poles is human life.

At that moment when I am driving along the road and the “I must overtake him” triggers in me, it would be nice to turn on the human element. Ask yourself the question: “Why?”

- Another instinct: your offspring must survive!

- Yes, that’s why “put on your hat”, “finish your soup” and so on! When this instinct turns on in my head, I say to myself: “Dima, wait. The child himself feels whether he is warm or cold. Is he full or hungry? Everything is fine".

The same with food: I understand why our ancestors ate the first, second and third, especially those from the north - otherwise they would have died. But now this is no longer the case, and it is important to realize this.

Manipulation - violence in a humane way

— The next common mistake is manipulation, is it scary?

- Let's first agree on what it is. In my formulation, manipulation is deception. When we do something, we teach it to the next generation, this is an obvious thing. The way we behave shows our children how to behave.

It happens that sometimes parents say: “She (or he) is such a manipulator!” Well, that's what you taught him. If my parents deceive me over and over again, saying that Baba Yaga, or a policeman who has enough imagination, comes for those who don’t finish their porridge, of course, I will quickly master this technique myself.

— Why is it so easy for parents to slip into manipulation? Are they effortless?

— The temptation to use force in a seemingly humane way. Let's imagine an example: I poured soup for a child, the child caused a shipwreck there, and did not eat the soup. My instinct turned on again: my offspring will not survive if they do not eat this soup. I am a mother, I must make sure that the child eats.

I can tie him to a chair, open his mouth with a special mouth opener and pour soup into it. But it's somehow inconvenient.

Let me deceive him. There are many ways to cheat. Do you remember the example of the brilliant Dragunsky in “The Secret Becomes Revealed”? And, by the way, Deniska’s condition is described brilliantly. This is the number one method when we use training: “If you finish the soup, you will be great.”

There is a more complex and perverted method: “Whoever does not eat soup will forever have small hands, will not get married, will never grow up.”

— It seems to me that a person does not always keep track of what he is manipulating. And he completely sincerely believes that he is doing what is best.

“Moreover, he has the right to do so.” We are people, our basic right is to make mistakes and stumble. Well, we stumbled, shook ourselves off, thought and moved on. And this “move on” is a rather important point. Of course we fall into it. What parent doesn’t feel a pang in his heart when his child goes outside without a scarf, and dad thinks it’s very cold there? The question is not whether my heart will ache, the question is what I will do about it.

If a child promised to come home at 9 pm, but he is not there at 9, 10, or 11, and the phone does not answer, what parent would not start going crazy? The question is, what do I do when I go crazy? I’m going the route of enslavement: I’ll tie him to the battery, he won’t go anywhere at all, and I’ll be calm. This is not a human way, but it is there. The human way is more complex, full of doubt, conflict and reconciliation, compromise, reflection.

Self-righteousness is not indifference

— Is there such a parental sin as indifference? Dad lies on the sofa, watches TV, and sends the child to play on the tablet. Does it happen that parents really have no fun with their children?

— I would say that this conversation is not about indifference. I have the right to do what interests me. In most cases, I should not rush to the child at the first call, putting off everything I was doing. Mom sits, reads a book for pleasure, the child comes running, it is very important for him to do something with his mother right now.

At this moment, the mother, by her own example, can teach the child an important skill - awareness of his own needs: “I have the right to do what is interesting to me now.” And take one minute to tell us what pleasure is. This is not at all indifference, but quite the opposite, it is a right to oneself. The right to myself is what I read, what I wear, with whom and how I am friends, this is awareness. If we could teach all the children in the world this right to themselves, and then also pass it on to adults, then we would enter the kingdom of prosperity.

- There is such a joke. Mom looks out the window and shouts to her son: “Go home!” - “Mom, am I cold?” - “No, you’re hungry!” What's going on with the parent here?

— The sin of thoughtlessness, I would say, to use your terminology. What's going on with mom? Mom’s dad brought a mammoth from the store, and her basic instinct kicked in again: urgently feed her son. Otherwise, other people will eat the mammoth. I have a message for my mother: the mammoth will not go anywhere, it will lie in the same place in an hour.

And if suddenly they really eat it, then we will go around the corner to the store and buy cheese, bread and dumplings there. It’s cool to stop at this point and ask the question differently: “Are you hungry?” By the way, this is an important maternal question: children really play. It only takes a second, one second, to avoid falling into thoughtlessness.

“You still have to learn how to catch it.”

— There is a tool that does not fail. And I have thousands of reviews that it works. Take one deep breath. I opened the window to shout to Pavlik. I took a deep breath. And closed the window. Or he opened it and inhaled: “Pavlik, are you hungry?” - "No!" - “I’m hungry, I’ll go eat!” That's all.

It's good that we talked about this. I understand that we must continue to search for words. Very often people tell me: “No, it’s impossible, it’s not a magic wand, that’s all.” This is not a magic wand, it is a specific and very simple tool, and it does not cost any money. Try it. He gives us a three-second head start, and we don’t need more time.

And then there will be a choice: either let him go, or feed him and establish a primitive system. But in any case, it will be a conscious choice. And without a choice, we again return to the animal nature, without a choice we say: “Finish the soup!”

How parents can betray their children

— Betrayal is probably the most terrible parental sin. How do parents betray their children? And how can they stop doing this?

— How can parents betray their children? First of all, self-doubt. Let's start with the simplest betrayal: we are walking up the stairs, my child is jumping and making noise, the neighbor is clicking her tongue, and at this moment I suddenly demonstrate that the neighbor is more precious to me than my child. People will ask me: should I let my child make noise in the entrance?

But making noise is the nature of childhood. The neighbor will come home and calm down or not calm down. That's how she likes it.

In this situation, the main message that I send to my child is: “You are my most beloved and important person, not a neighbor, but you.” How to send this message requires a little thought.

Another pure betrayal is school parent meetings. When I allow another person to talk about my loved one behind his back, and even in the presence of other people. And then, when I return home, I put this opinion at the forefront and begin to reprimand my loved one. We can deceive ourselves as much as we like, but this is betrayal in its purest form.

Another example is about grandmothers. It's painful and really difficult. Grandmother begins to build a person: now we need to eat, now we need to go to bed. This is not pure betrayal, but if we don’t protect our loved one, don’t even explain to him what’s happening, it’s the same story.

If I understand that my child does not sleep during the day, well, he does not want to sleep, and his grandmother needs him to sleep for an hour and a half, even if he is crying, then he simply does not go to his grandmother. You cannot make a person hostage to your relationship with a third party. Yes, I may have difficult relationships with my parents, but that means it’s up to me to sort them out, I’m an adult. We need to talk, yes, sometimes we need to conflict, we can go to a family psychologist together, we can do a lot of things. This is an adult relationship and adult responsibility. But don't tear the child apart.

I felt that now I would simply push this pacifier into her mouth

— What is Dima Zitser’s biggest mistake as a dad?

- I have three children. My eldest daughter was born when I was 21 years old. I remember very well that at that time I was absolutely sure, I confess, that crying was not good. That a parent must do everything to prevent the child from crying. I was so stupid that I didn’t even care where this belief came from. I remember this irritation when she cried.

And I remember how I dealt with it. Small one-room apartment. My daughter is about a year old, she is lying in her crib, I am left alone with her and am rehearsing something at this time. And so she cries, I go to her, take a pacifier on the way, raise my hand and realize that the muscle in my arm is very tense. And that now I’ll just shove this pacifier into her mouth.

And then I get very scared. Such a powerful moment of awareness. I was very scared, very scared. And then I began to think about it, began to pay attention, began to look at what was what. The second I got scared, it gave birth to a chain of thoughts: how does this happen, what comes after what.

Another mistake involves the middle daughter. The eldest was born when we were very young people who didn’t give a damn, we hung out and didn’t care about anything, and she hung out with us. The youngest is already hanging out with us because we have accepted that this is a very correct way to live. And the middle one came at the time of our formation and self-employment.

Her growth was quite strong and dramatic for us. In terms of what I would have changed when she was 4, 5, 6 years old, I would have taken her everywhere with us a lot more, spent a lot more time with her. It so happened that I, myself, did not receive enough of this pleasure - to be little with her.

Then it seemed to me, well, a small child is a small child, we are still good parents, she is loved. But today I would spend as much time as possible with her. Based simply on the fact that loved ones cannot, in most cases, interfere with each other.

The situation is terrible for me. I am 51 years old. I have been teaching languages ​​for 23 years. Two children: son Dmitry (24) and daughter (16). I live in the Moscow region, my son studied in Moscow, and recently completed an internship. Six months ago, a girl started writing to him on VKontakte. The son met her, liked each other, and started dating. In the girl’s family (name is Nastya, 21 years old), their son was received very well. I was glad too - the girl is studying excellently at the university, cooks well, and is caring. But there was some strangeness about it. As long as my son and Nastya are fine. As soon as he left for his dorm, there were hysterical calls, demands to come urgently, usually at night.

But so far there were no signs. Nastya came to visit us, we met, everything seemed to be fine.

In the summer I decided to give my son a gift - a vacation in Sochi with his girlfriend. The trip cost me more than 100 thousand. Air tickets for two, rented accommodation. Excursions, entertainment. One night my son calls - Nastya ran away. I ask, “Why did you let me go, didn’t you hold me?” She says, “I held her, and she started screaming throughout the entire entrance.” And the reason was because of the watermelon. She got offended and ran away at night in an unfamiliar city. Everyone was awake.
During the time that his son was with Nastya, he came home very rarely, for a few hours. One more thing. I arrived, barely catching the last bus, around 12 at night. Before we have time to say hello, Nastya is already calling. And for 2-3 hours. He sits talking to her until 3 am, then sleeps, and takes the morning 5-hour bus back to Moscow. I couldn’t communicate with my son at all, only when he went to the store alone in Moscow and called me. When Nastya was around, he never answered the phone.

Once it happened, I didn’t have time to arrive, Nastya called. Night. She ran away from home - her grandmother called her a bad word. And now she stands unhappy under the house. He asks his son to come urgently. The son says that there is no money for a taxi. She - take it, find it wherever you want, but come. We didn't have money for a taxi. She called and called and became hysterical. Then, as always, “goodbye, it’s over.” Then they made up, the son asks if Nastya can live with us, since she quarreled with her mother and grandmother. I agreed. Nastya arrives on Friday (last). They didn’t communicate much; her son warned her that she was stressed from a quarrel with her family. On Sunday evening I see that Nastya is getting ready to leave for Moscow (she has made peace with her relatives). And mine is going with her - Nastya’s bag is heavy, she needs help with it. He'll be back in a couple of days. I left with a card where the money is transferred to me. On Monday I call to come, because we are sitting without a penny, all the money is on the card. I only got it on Wednesday. When I called my son again, she called him a traitor (Nastya heard this). We sat without money for two days. The son, apparently, didn’t care that his grandmother, mother and sister essentially had nothing to eat. I got angry, ordered a new card for myself (to pay for my lessons), and warned all the students so that no more money would be transferred to the old card. In general, my son arrives on Wednesday. I had no time for him yet, I’m teaching classes, I think I’ll free myself, let’s talk about everything. Mine is stuck on the phone again, reporting. Twenty minutes before the last bus, my son runs into the room with wild eyes (I’m teaching a lesson) and asks for money for a ticket. She refused and said that we finally needed to talk calmly about everything: about his future studies, work, and the army. I hear hysterical squeals on the other end of the line. She screamed like crazy. The son, like a zombie, packs his things and is about to leave. It's night outside. Without money. Nastya demands that he come. Somehow I calmed my son down. I literally had to hang on to him so that he wouldn’t leave. Nastya calls non-stop. I see he’s already afraid to pick up the phone. So she started calling me from different numbers. I don't take it either. I spoke to my son. She told me her opinion about his girlfriend. Emotionally unbalanced, ungrateful (she never thanked me for the vacation in Sochi and the gold chain for my birthday), greedy. The son says that he loves her very much.
In the morning they knock on the fence (we have our own house). The son says, “It’s probably Nastya who has arrived.” I look, he’s afraid to open it. Again she calls all the phones. We sit quietly. They hammer for half an hour. I tell my son that this is already indecent (if only I had known how it would end). Reluctantly I went to open it. Nastya’s grandmother comes into the house (the first time I saw her). It turns out that Nastya calls her grandmother at night (her grandmother is at her dacha 100 km from Moscow) and says that she is about to throw herself off the 16th floor. The grandmother, in horror, goes to Moscow, takes Nastya, and they come to us. When the son opened the gate, an inhuman scream was heard throughout the street (naturally, one could turn gray from horror). I was honestly scared for my son, I thought she was going to kill him. She screamed, “Why didn’t you answer the phone, why didn’t you open it...” My son and Nastya are on the street, my grandmother and I are in the house. And away we go - “you want to separate them” (!) (this despite the fact that I arranged a trip for them, I didn’t see my son at all, I was with Nastya all the time, I completely forgot about the family), “they are Romeo and Juliet”, “we have two apartments in Moscow and a house, we ourselves will feed him, clothe him, just give him to Nastya.” At first I tried to explain that I would not interfere, but sometimes I also need help from my son, there is no one else to rely on. Useless. They accused me of all mortal sins. Didn't let me insert a word. You can understand the grandmother; she was afraid for her granddaughter that she would do something to herself. In general, I sat in a hand-face position and just shook my head in shock - where did my son end up? ! In general, the young people made peace, standing on the street, huddled together. Grandma yells at me that they can’t be separated (as if I’m separating them). I saw my son went to pack his things. Nastya is on the street. I approach her. She: “Why did you call him a traitor?” I calmly tell her that sometimes I need a son. When I reminded her that she didn’t even thank me, she started screaming at her grandmother, “give her the money.” Then this girl called me hysterical. I told her “get out of my house.” Another scream. My son goes to the door with his things, I tried not to let him in. Grandma (honored literature teacher, 34 years of experience) hangs on me and screams that Nastya will die. I pressed my head against my son’s chest, and his heart was pounding so much that I became scared. I tried to kick my grandmother out, no matter what. She started beating me, tearing my clothes, tearing me away from my son. I can’t beat her, and my grandmother is three times thicker and stronger than me. I tried to reason with my son - how will you live with such inadequate people? ! The grandmother shouts to Nastya and her son, “go away, I’ll detain her.” She holds the door herself so that I don’t leave. Another brawl on the street at the gate. The grandmother holds the gate while the young people leave. My daughter cried looking at all this. At first I even wanted to write a statement about the beatings. But the police would not have understood - the situation was tragicomic - they beat him and took his son away. And the question is - what to do? My son is penniless now. I won’t call him, I’m offended - well, he shouldn’t have allowed him to beat and insult his mother. Sorry for writing a lot.

What do you advise?

And the worst thing is that when I remember how my son left with those who beat and insulted me, my soul hurts so much and I have no strength. But how many times did he say that he loved me very much and would help me and would never leave me in trouble. I'm not the only one shocked. My daughter can't believe her brother did this to me.

9 Sep 2016

Tracey

Olesya Verevkina

Tracey, could you tell us about yourself and voice the problem. Based on the subject of the message, it is clear that your son betrayed you. Tell us more.

9 Sep 2016

“Betrayal of a son” is a strong definition. Could you write what his betrayal is?

Yes, the story is complicated, bitter feelings. But from your story it is clear that none of the participants in the story knows how to say “no”. “No” - to yourself, to others. The son has grown up and the childish phrase “I will never leave” is not a promise, but an expression of the degree of his affection. He is probably soft and sensitive, susceptible to influence. But perhaps he made a choice - all sons sooner or later choose another woman and they cannot be kept. You made a mistake trying to hold him. I think that he is not so stupid that he does not see or understand what is happening. Give him time. It’s not easy for him and I think he is in a confusion of feelings and, of course, did not act like a son. You are a mother, you will forgive me, but she is not. In such situations, intervention only causes harm; you remain extreme. The mother is alone in her son’s life, and there can be no women. A lot of.
And don’t rush to “arrange” your son’s relationship - giving chains, paying for trips, etc. - let them earn it themselves and you will have no reason to reproach him and her for ingratitude. Everyone should be aware of their limitations. Charity (and to children too) only creates the illusion that everything will appear on its own and dependence. Let them live by their own wits, and we’ll see.

9 Sep 2016

I can also add. I always tried to give the children the best. I left school because of the low salary, I give private lessons. The children know that my pension will be microscopic, I have no experience. But she could take the children to the sea. My son studied at the best medical school in the country. I rented a house in Moscow for him. I always reminded my children that in my old age they are my only support. So what now? Did the son choose the girl over his mother? Moreover, I saw how they were beating me, and did nothing. Silently he got ready and left with them. And I tried to cook something tastier for Nastya when we had her, forced my son to give her flowers. She offered to live with us. So much for gratitude.

Thanks for the answer. I also realized that I shouldn’t have stopped. Then, when I calmed down a little. The trouble is that I don't know what he will do now. He won’t get a job without experience, experienced doctors are out of work, there are layoffs. We planned that he would go to residency. Who will pay for his studies now? Now the army. A summons may come. I insist that you do not hide from the army - this is a criminal offense, you cannot start your life with this. But my grandmother told me that Dima couldn’t join the army. They will still hide it. They are now influencing him. They will get my son into trouble.
Another question. For a long time a man can tolerate a hysterical woman who is jealous of everything. There's a lot to be said.
Then I looked at the photos from the sea - Nastya is not smiling in any of them! I feel sorry for my son.
I always knew that my son would have a family. I thought I would be a good mother-in-law. Yes, the son leaves for another woman, but should he leave his mother? Don't visit her. Don't call.

9 Sep 2016

Tracey

Vadim Pershin

I always knew that my son would have a family. I thought I would be a good mother-in-law. Yes, the son leaves for another woman, but should he leave his mother?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately! Yes... I must.

10 Sep 2016

, It’s hard for me to judge what your son will do. I understand your maternal position and aspirations, a mother myself.
I know your version of what happened with him and between you. Why he “silently got ready and left with them” can only be said by himself; perhaps not everything was so smooth between you. But I have the impression that you treat him as a disabled person who needs “crutches” (to guide, to invest), as if without you he cannot do or achieve anything in life. I'm talking about feelings of faith and trust. But this girl constantly made him feel that only he could save her, that is, be a Hero in her eyes, that he was a man, albeit in a peculiar way.
You write that “they are now influencing him” - this is a matter of control and power, which you yourself have lost and now he will become unpredictable for you (“I don’t know what he will do now.”). This is very strong for you. worries, because a son and daughter are like an investment for you that will bring dividends in old age and they both know it - this is their “burden”, which can determine a lot in your relationships, feelings. They will both have to pay “debts”. This is called a dependent relationship - that hook that parents often organize for their children. If children jump off the hook, they are reproached with ingratitude. Most people call this “filial duty” - again about “debts” - an attempt to tie a child to themselves until old age. This is what most people sin with parents, but there are also those who build their lives and relationships in such a way that neither they nor themselves are in debt.I know that in many countries children leave the family at the age of 16 to become self-sufficient and their education and prosperity are entrusted to them.
You have a belief (idea): “they will lead my son into trouble.” But, if you judge from this position, then you need to ask yourself “where did I get my son and how?”
I always try to proceed from the fact that there is not only a conscious (rational) position (explanations), but also an “undercurrent” (desires) that we create ourselves and it is dangerous because it can “flood” not only us, but also neighbors (about “we don’t know what we are doing”).
I don't think your son will leave you. Much depends on what line of behavior you take.

10 Sep 2016

Thank you very much for your answers. Olga, you are absolutely right! Now, having analyzed and remembered everything, I understand that there were “bells” before and there were many of them. My son, in the heat of a quarrel, often told me that I didn’t love him, that I wished him harm. Until the age of 16, we talked a lot and were very close. Then he left to study and somehow began to move away little by little. He could swear in my presence, he even swung at me. Everything is natural, I understand it now. Natural end. I remembered everything during these two days, there was severe mental pain. Today I fell asleep only in the morning and woke up from my own sobs. At night there was a desire to die, just so as not to feel this pain. And now it’s strange, but it’s gone. No pain. I accepted the situation and came to terms with the worst thing, that I would never see him. As he was leaving, his daughter asked when he would arrive. He said that on Saturday, that is, today. I threw it on his card for a ticket. Although I understand that he won’t come, and I don’t expect it. There will be no more money. His girlfriend had a good time with him while they spent my money at 30 thousand a month. Now he will have no money at all. They only hire him with a certificate from the military registration and enlistment office, but he won’t go there, because Nastya and her grandmother are against it. How long will they tolerate the dependent? I pushed him towards her with my own hands. Before her, he spent about 15 thousand, with her twice as much. I also told him to give flowers and take her to a cafe. What a fool. I also took Nastya to the sea at my expense. Now let them try to live without my money. Nastya still has 4 years to study. Grandmother is a pensioner, mother is disabled. They live in a rented Moscow one-room apartment. And they themselves are in a two-room apartment. Nastya’s mother and stepfather lived in one room, and Nastya and her grandmother lived in another. Now, while it’s warm, someone lives in the country. And in winter? My grandmother told me that they would evict the tenants and let the young people live like that. How will they all live? It was good while my son was carrying bags full of food. And now there is no money.
You are also right about the “burden”. There is such a thing. Since childhood, I have loaded children so that I would not be thrown into a nursing home in my old age. Although I have two expensive real estate, and I can do tutoring until an old age, if there is no dementia) (but then I won’t care anymore, I think)))
Olga, I agree with you that it was necessary to calmly let him go, not to cause this horror. At that time I was simply in a deranged state.
Well, until my son calls or writes. You said to give him time. Will wait. I won't call myself. I calmed down. Come what may.

Unfortunately! Yes... I must.
If you want to be a good mother-in-law.

Click to expand...

10 Sep 2016

Tracey

Sometimes it's wiser to just let things go and let things take their natural course.

10 Sep 2016

Vadim Pershin

Does that mean you should quit completely? Neither call nor visit your mother? Somehow this seems wild to me. I do not agree. You don’t call your mom or visit her either?

Click to expand...

Do not confuse the social aspect of the relationship, namely child-parent relations, mother’s love and her obligations under the Civil Code, as well as the obligations of the children\ the mother can easily and sometimes has the right to receive a “pension” from the children legally... with psychological...

as long as the mother lives with the child, he will remain small for her... And now attention to the question:
and the young woman who chose for her husband man do you need a child? Yes! Only real
small, and not the one who “sucks mommy’s tit”

The wisdom of mothers is to always be there and be ready to accept their child, no matter how abruptly his fate turns... But the child’s story (whether he will call or not, how often he will call, whether he will come or not.) is his story, and this is absolutely a third party should not touch\

For the full story in this Tracey story, we need a version from the words of the children \ while we see the story through the eyes of a loving mother

Attachments:

11 Sep 2016

Olga, you were right! My son didn't leave me. Yesterday, to my surprise, he arrived. Late evening. As promised. From the doorway - Mom, I'm sorry. He thought that we would not open it for him. So, he felt guilty. Now his version of what happened. He said that without him they would not have left anyway. Nastya kept telling him that she would throw herself off the balcony. And then, when he was getting ready to leave at night, she also shouted into the phone that she was already standing on the balcony, and would now drop off. That's why he got scared. I asked why I allowed my grandmother to beat me? He said he didn't see her hitting me. Well, basically, she tore me away from my son, but it hurt. And the son was generally like a zombie. And then it was behind his back, when my grandmother held me and shouted, “go away quickly, I’m holding her.” So he could very well not have noticed. He asked, “Did you really think that I would leave you? I told Vika (my daughter) that I would never leave you.” He said that the neighbors had already started going out into the street to see what was happening there, what the screams were. It was necessary to end this somehow; they wouldn’t have left on their own without calling the police.
In general, they brought him to Moscow. And the next day they sent me to get a job. Yes, they took him to the clinic, but he needed a military ID, now they are strict about this. People who have not served in the army are not accepted anywhere. It’s funny, they told me that they were rich and would feed and clothe my son themselves. And in Moscow the very next day they drove me to work. That's why they needed him. I want him to study further in residency, then in graduate school, and I’m ready to pay for it. And they need a breadwinner, not a dependent.
The son also said that Nastya’s family believes that he sleeps too much. Nastya asked him, “How will you work two (!) jobs if you sleep so much?” The son was shocked by these words. Nastya wants her son to work in two places, since one job will not bring in enough money. In general, my infantile (sadly) son’s eyes began to open. Nastya’s family also believes that my son eats a lot (which is true). In a conversation with me, my grandmother asked if my son was sick, otherwise he somehow eats a lot (!).
Another funny thing (but not for my son) was that he was not allowed near the computer! This was a fatal mistake. My son won't trade his computer for anything. It was only allowed to read books (my grandmother, as I already wrote, was a literature teacher). It is customary for families to read at night (this is probably good).

In general, the son got ready to go home, but there was no money. The SMS did not come that we had put money on the card, and he did not know. I tried to withdraw 500 rubles from an ATM, but we only sent 400. Well, I didn’t receive anything, I thought that there was no money on the card. I had to ask my grandmother for money for the trip. What started here! The grandmother said that if he does not return in a couple of days, then there will already be two corpses (obviously, he and his granddaughter will jump from the balcony). They took my son’s things (as collateral) and wanted to take my passport. Grandma tells Nastya, make a copy of your passport and give it to him, but we won’t give it back! I barely persuaded him to give it up. They sewed a pocket (!) on the underpants with money for the return trip in case I didn’t give the money. They were sure that I would not let my son go.
What have you decided to do now? The son will not return to Moscow to them. We will send the money by mail or card. We'll spare some things - an old sweater, a T-shirt and a towel. The son says that he loves Nastya, but is not ready to sacrifice his habits and lifestyle for her sake. I think that this is not love, but just passion. I think that in the near future there will be another episode of this tragicomedy. If they come, we decided not to open it. We have entrance to the site from two different streets (they don’t know). So they can sit under the gate for days at least.
I drew conclusions for myself. I will no longer burden my children with the idea that they owe me something and owe me something. I will give more freedom in choice, although I still think that I am only helping to make their dreams come true. In general, I wanted my son to be a programmer, but he dreamed of medicine since childhood. I wanted my daughter to become a dentist, but she flatly refused, just a programmer. I was also a little disappointed in my son. Although I’m glad that he returned home, I still see how quickly he abandoned his love for the sake of his usual quiet lifestyle behind his mother’s back. Very childish. I've been too worried about my children all my life. That's probably why it's like this.
I don’t know whether my son will pick up the phone when Nastya calls (my son is sleeping now), and what will happen next. But I think this is not the end of the story.

11 Sep 2016

Tracey

Olesya Verevkina

If you have no further questions on the topic for the psychologist, then you can leave a review of the psychologist’s work. There is a lot of interesting information on our forum

I've been too worried about my children all my life.

Click to expand...

Looks like it...

Click to expand...

Everyone wants something for him. And what does he want?
Your son, by all appearances, is a good guy, and that’s probably why it’s like they’re trying to tear him apart.

11 Sep 2016

Hello, dear forum users!
I have a sad continuation. The son returned home and lived for two weeks. During this time, a summons arrived for a medical examination (which means he will go into the army) on October 27th. His phone was ringing off the hook with calls from Nastya, his grandmother and Nastya’s mother. Mine too. They didn't answer the phone. Two weeks later, a friend of his son came and called him to talk. I guessed that Nastya had arrived with him and was hiding on the street. In general, they talked, we watched through the window. It was terrible. I saw how cruel my son is. Nastya hangs herself on him, hugs him, kisses him, but he turns his face away and pushes her away. Then she ran to the river to drown herself. Then they approached the house again. Nastya was on her knees in front of her son, I was in shock. Then my son came - “Nastya wants to apologize to you on her knees” - I refused in shock. I hear her yelling outside the door. I think we need to stop this. Came out. She hung on me, crying, shaking all over. I felt very sorry for her. In general, they made up, Nastya lived with us for two days. The next week my son went to Nastya. We agreed to pick up the phone when I call. Yeah. My son is still there (although he promised to help me with the house here). Doesn't pick up the phone. Goes to social network. She wrote there that she was doing something wrong. He answered that he loved me and would do everything he promised and would come soon. Again he doesn’t pick up the phone, doesn’t log into social networks. I started to feel some kind of panic. It was the first time I hadn’t heard my son’s voice for so long. I wrote to Nastya to pick up the phone, and if the phone doesn’t work (my son is lying about the phone not working), to let her talk to her. And Nastya answered, “first of all, hello” - and that’s all. So much for “sorry.” I was very angry - my eye began to twitch due to nervousness, my health was deteriorating (I’m afraid that they decided to hide it from the army, I’m afraid that it would ruin my life), and she decided to teach me manners. She never said thank you. In general, I wrote to her that if my son doesn’t call back today, if I don’t hear his voice, then I’ll put him on the wanted list, and they’ll look for him through her dean’s office (I don’t know her address, just her last name and university). Here the movement immediately began. Grandma called 5 times. I do not respond. My son wrote that we’ll call you tomorrow at 12. Nastya wrote that I should “first change my tone” and that she would not fulfill my requests. In general, the girl “fledged”, felt her power over me, or something. The next day I didn’t call, my son himself called me and my daughter. We didn't answer. I don't need any favors. I will no longer beg for calls from my son. I did a lot for him. And this is the answer.
What I decided: I won’t call or write anymore. I will not beg to communicate with my son. If he wants to cut off all contacts with his family, let him. Of course, if he shows up, I’ll try to talk to him, but I won’t give advice without asking, and I won’t say anything bad about Nastya. I will not give money without his request. But how can he go into the army without parcels and help? I will try to establish communication, I will listen more, I will not give instructions. I will no longer allow either my son or this “cheerful” family to wipe their feet on themselves. I read it here on the Internet - it turns out that there are a sea of ​​poor souls like me. Apartments, cars for my sons, and in return? Insolence, rudeness, they are forbidden to see their grandchildren, parents humiliatingly ask their scumbag sons for basic things. I don't need this. I already have a nervous tic (now I’ve calmed down a little, it’s almost gone), but I still need to get my daughter back on her feet, I need health. My daughter is shocked by everything. The son also wrote (they are now singing nasty things about his mother in his ears, but he listens and believes) that he does not have a home where they treat him well. Great. Of course, it happened that in my childhood I offended my son, like all other parents, no one is ideal. I am not an angel. How many times have I asked for forgiveness, but he remembers everything.
In general, g... My son hasn’t tried it, so let him catch up now. Everyone must ruin their own life. I really hope that in the army my son’s eyes will open to the reality around him. He will see how it happens to others (and there will be different guys there). And then he studied with guys from wealthy classes, where he could see the real life - get to know it? Always with money, a mother is needed to fulfill wishes at the first whistle. It’s scary, of course, but the army will be useful for my son and all of us.
So I spoke out. It's good that this forum exists. Thank you.

P.S. I haven’t called or written for a week now. Well, so does my son. He also doesn’t log into social networks. He doesn't care what happens to us or how. That's it.

Tracey

Life does not stand still. For all of you, these events are psychologically traumatic, but you cannot become embittered. Sons leave home - this has to happen sooner or later. They move from the status of a mother's son to the status of a man. The mother must let her children go into adulthood, where she is no longer responsible for them, but they themselves take responsibility for everything that happens to them. I see that you are ready to let him go. Everything will gradually return to normal and fall into place.

What is the most painful thing a person experiences? There are probably many answers to this question - we are all very different. But nevertheless, few things cause such pain as someone close to you (or who seemed so for some time). Yes, yes, exactly a loved one, after all, everyone today is most likely familiar with such a common proverb: “They always betray their own.” Of course, our own - because how can strangers betray? We didn’t rely on them, we didn’t trust them, we didn’t reveal our heartfelt secrets, we didn’t think about them and ourselves as parts of a single whole.

And your own... How hard it can be when you are faced with deception on the part of someone whom you seemed to completely trust. Or you will find out that your friend is acting in concert with your enemies against you. Or you suddenly find out that he is aiming for your place, intriguing, slandering, playing a dirty and dishonest game...

The point is not that “our own” has the ability to stab in the back - we rarely let strangers into the rear... It’s not that he can inflict maximum damage. Something else is much more important. It seems that the ground is disappearing from under your feet, it’s even becoming unclear how to live further if this is the case...

“Do not trust in princes, in the sons of men, for in them there is no salvation” (Ps. 145:3). And again: “Cursed is everyone who trusts in man” (Jer. 17:5). And again: “It is better to trust in the Lord than to trust in man; it is better to trust in the Lord than to trust in princes” (Ps. 117:8-9).

But they had already hoped, they were already hopeful. And now they were not just disappointed, deceived, but precisely that they were subjected to a curse! And how to cope with the feelings that overwhelm us, how to heal heart wounds, how, ultimately, to forgive?! After all, the Lord definitely expects us to be reconciled internally - both with what happened and with people, so that there is no dejection, depression from what we have experienced, no embitterment, or bitterness left in us.

It seems to me that in such cases we almost always make the same mistake, which, of course, is based on our wrong attitude towards our “I”. Where does this feeling of betrayal come from? From there, it is likely that we previously believed that we were connected with a person by those relationships that imposed certain obligations on both us and him. But in fact, do we have the right to demand from him - another - the same thing that we demand from ourselves? From myself - please! But from the other - no. This is not a business, not a contractual relationship with signing a bunch of papers, stamps and seals. This is a living life in which we must act according to our Christian conscience and not be arbiters in relation to someone else’s conscience.

And why do we generally perceive what a person does as necessarily related to us? He, most likely, thinks about us least of all. He thinks about himself - about his circumstances, problems, interests, needs, and so on. He does not set himself the goal of betraying us, hurting us, annoying us, hurting us, he simply does what is most convenient and profitable for him, that’s all.

We are sad because we are experiencing how, uncomfortable in our souls... But it would be good to figure out why exactly. If because we were betrayed, they weren't faithful to us, that is, do we really have grounds to demand this loyalty and condemn someone in whom we have not found it? Perhaps not: people are not faithful to God, let alone us. If it’s bitter because they were deceived in a person, thought of him better than he turned out to be, and now they recognize him and seem to have lost him, then well... He is free to be what he wants, and we can only step aside, but again - without judging.

Is it difficult? That's not the right word! So much so that it’s rare that you can immediately set yourself up and act like that. It is difficult, but possible - with the help of the One who so often forgives genuine betrayal and apostasy, including ours. And if we do not deliberately etch the wound in the heart, do not turn it into a slowly, painfully corroding ulcer, but resort to an infinite number of times the Betrayed and Abandoned, but not Betraying or Forsaking anyone, then He, of course, will teach us how to troubles and sorrows to benefit your soul. And more than that - how to get closer to Him through this, become at least a little similar, at least a little closer...

In the previous post I did not mention one important point, but commentators noticed it.

About the teeth - while we were climbing the stairs, I, having learned that my daughter was afraid, asked her: “Maybe we can check if any of the children are afraid?” - she said: “I'm afraid.” “I answered: “I will be next to you and if they say something bad, I will not force you to go to the group.” “Okay. Just ask,” she said.
And I, naturally, chose the girl with her mother, because mother, of course, will not say that “Yes, tease her as much as necessary.”

If it had been teenagers, or if it had been a group of children, or if I had not asked my daughter for permission, it would indeed have been a betrayal.

And I came across this - I worked with teenagers at school, and I was asked to identify what their problems were, why there was a tense atmosphere in one of the classes. During two meetings (and I must say that organizing these meetings was extremely difficult - the teachers constantly “forgot” that their children had training, constantly tried to take “a couple of boys” away from him or put some classes in his place or move us from office to office) won the trust of the children, found out what was going on with them and why, clarified it, told the teacher that A. was insulting B., and the others joined in because A. is a year older than all of them, and they are afraid of him, but they feel that it is wrong to bully B., and it would be good if you... but the teacher did not listen to me and instantly, right away - I had just left the class - rushed into the classroom and in front of all the children yelled at A. something - then in the spirit: “Oh, you bastard! How could you! You insult B.! You’re a freak!” well, etc.
When she returned and I asked her: “Do you understand that the children will never tell me anything again, and now B. will be insulted with a vengeance?”, she was very surprised and said that I don’t understand anything, that Children are unruly animals and need to be tamed, not gained their trust.
I opened my mouth, closed my mouth. I went to the director, talked with the director for fifteen minutes, realized that she had the same opinion, and said that with this approach I could only be in opposition to the teachers and the director, and this would most likely harm the children, and that I I fundamentally disagree with this policy. And she never appeared there again. And - an important point - it was a private school.

And that's why I don't work with teenagers - despite all the options I had (school was more of a special case than a big practice), parents and teachers often made me feel a lot because they applied any information they received about children ( even if it was “today we have improved contact” - because when you work with a child, not telling a parent anything at all is difficult, even though I tried my best to maintain confidentiality) not to improve mutual understanding, but for stupid, clumsy and too obvious for manipulation of children, and even assault. That it simply ruined the trust between me and the children (which is not so bad) and made three-quarters of the work meaningless, because the parent pays for the work.
I know that there are colleagues of mine who are much more successful in balancing the interests of teenagers and the interests of parents and are better at managing their feelings on this issue, so they are much more successful than I am in working with children.